autism

The Well Podcast: Talking About Autism

Lately, the busiest post on the Well blog is about Hannah Poling, a 9-year-old girl at the center of a new controversy about autism and vaccines.

To learn more about the issue, I invited Hannah’s father, neurologist Dr. John S. Poling of Athens, Ga., to join me for a podcast. The podcast is a new feature of the Well blog, where you can join me each week to learn more about the blog’s most talked-about entries.

Late last year, government lawyers agreed that vaccines may have hurt Hannah, and they reached a settlement with her family for her care. I spoke with Dr. Poling about why he came forward, his views on vaccines in general and why he thinks his daughter’s case will lead to breakthroughs in autism research. Click below to listen in.
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Related

* Will a 9-Year-Old Change the Vaccine Debate?
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* The Language of Autism
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* Times Health Guide: Autism
* Times Essentials: Immunization

55 comments so far...

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1.
April 17th,
2008
4:47 pm

I didn’t comment on the original post because it just got a bit crazy on all sides. But I kept thinking why don’t the Polings care about vaccination rates? Don’t they realize what they’re doing to the community by publicizing an anti-vaccine message.

Well now I have listened to the podcast I understand better where he’s coming from. BUT I still think he’s got the wrong idea in some ways.

In choosing to go public he took on responsibility for how the story would be used. And as a Dr he has a responsibility to public health - so if the effect of publicity about Hannah is that innocent children are damaged from preventable diseases I see that as blood on Dr Poling’s hands.

I realize he thinks his message isn’t anti-vaccine. But that’s how it will be used. And he’s not doing much to counter that. He said himself that he is conflicted between not wanting to vaccinate kids like Hannah but knowing vaccines are vital in the community. Well that’s a dilemma he needed to resolve before he went public and caused a falling vaccination rate. Not good enough Dr Poling.

He says he’s not an expert in vaccines then proceeds to give a lay opinion that “it just seems too much”. I think he’s not entitled to do that. He’s a doctor and much more capable of engaging with the immunology speciality than the average parent. Before spouting his mouth off about vaccines not being safe in combinations, or asking why we have more now than a decade ago, he should have asked an immunologist. I am sure they could explain it in terms HE understands even if I don’t understand. And then he could be more responsible with his public statements. Not good enough Dr Poling.

Finally I just disagree that private physicans have the luxury of only thinking of the 1 patient. ALL doctors have a duty to public health. If there is a problem identifying those who should be exempted then he should have said THAT. He didn’t. He just threw up his hands and was thankful he didn’t have to deal with public health. That’s just not good enough. He’s not JUST another parent. He’s a doctor. He should know better.

Why did he not say that all he wants is that this group is identified and exempted but that everyone else should be vaccinated?

Why did he use the Vaccine Court to make his point instead of trying to get these kids identified before vaccinations?

The fact he profited significantly from the settlement and throws up his hands at the public health ramifications is suspicious.

I think a parent who happens to be a doctor has a special responsibility - not to just go after the money for their own child but to make it clear that they support vaccination, don’t make judgments on “instinct” and “common sense” but on proven fact, and distance themselves from the anti-vaccine crazies. It worries me that Dr Poling hasn’t done that convincingly at all.

I want to believe he didn’t mean to harm public health. But even if I cling to that, he should have known he WOULD harm public health. He should have at least tried to mitigate that. He didn’t, not in the essay nor in the podcast.

What would he say to the mother I know of whose 8 month old was exposed to measles before he could be vaccinated? Now they are holding their breath to see if he gets it. If he does he could die. If their neighbors children had been vaccinated the baby would never have been exposed. Those neighbors could have been following the public hysteria ensuing from the Polings publicity.

What would Dr Poling say to that family?

— Posted by Juanita
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2.
April 17th,
2008
5:48 pm

Good post Juanita.

Another problem I have with these people unscientifically linking vaccines to Autism is the negative effect it has on the way autistic individuals are seen by society.

One Nobel Prize winner, Vernon Smith, who was diagnosed with Autism said he probably wouldn’t have been so interested in economics if he hadn’t been diagnosed because he would have spent more time partying and doing social things.

Autism is not a ‘disease’ or an epidemic.

Polio and measles, on the other hand, are most certainly diseases.

— Posted by Alex Plank
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3.
April 17th,
2008
5:50 pm

I just want to add that I was diagnosed with Autism and have led a great life so far. I’m glad I received vaccinations.

You can see what _actual_ autistic people think on sites like http://wrongplanet.net which has more than 18,000 members.

— Posted by Alex Plank
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4.
April 17th,
2008
6:07 pm

Dear Tara and Dr. Poling,

Thank you very much for this unique post. This is an agonizing topic and very dear to me. Here is what I wrote on my site about this very topic (albeit, from different angle) recently.

“…it’s almost certain that fiber, particularly soluble, is behind the epidemic of autism. According to the CDC, “560,000 individuals between the ages of 0 to 21 have an ASD [autism spectrum disorder] and “between 1994 and 2004, the number of 6 to 17-year-old children classified as having an ASD in public special education programs increased from 22,664 to 193,637.”[20] That’s an 850% jump just in 10 years. Autism wasn’t even on the radar just a few generations ago.

This dramatic increase parallels fiber’s ascent to prominence and its wholesale addition to children’s nutrition — particularly with fortified wheat cereals, a main source of dietary iron and folic acid in the American diet.

Iron deficiency happens to be “an important cause of decreased attention span, alertness, and learning — both in young children and in adolescents” and folic acid deficiency causes “diarrhea, depression, and confusion.”[all conditions common to autism — KM] (Sources: National Institutes of Health, The Merck Manual).

In this context, the connection between autism and fiber is absolutely transparent: the soluble fiber in processed food, fruits, and juices; gluten in cereals, bread and pasta; and lactose, casein (milk’s protein) and stabilizers from fiber in processed dairy commonly cause intestinal inflammation. This prevents the absorption of iron, folic acid, essential amino and fatty acids, and other critical nutrients, which play a critical role in cognitive development. A well-established fact is that children with autism often experience severe gastrointestinal disorders, and that further supports this conclusion. “ (Excerpted from “Fiber: Wonder Food Or Wrecking Ball?”)

Unfortunately, these observations/conclusions aren’t broadly known, and I very much appreciate this opportunity of sharing them with your readers. Hope this will help Hannah and other kids affected by this plague. Thank you again.

— Posted by Konstantin Monastyrsky
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5.
April 17th,
2008
6:09 pm

Why are vaccines getting all of this negative attention as potential contributors to autism, while the methods by which we birth babies in the mainstream medical establishment remain largely ignored by concerned parents and scientists? Are artificial labor inducing hormones and designer births not and issue here? I understand that depending on a child’s condition some vaccines and some methods of vaccination can be harmful in different ways, but I’m not really in a position to have much of an opinion beyond that, at least where vaccines are concerned. However, the increasingly artificial methods of childbirth which have become more and more mainstream seem like they could have a much larger role to play in the development of children than they are currently credited for.

— Posted by Jane
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6.
April 17th,
2008
8:24 pm

To all of you who still DENY a link between Autism and Vaccines; I think you would need a double blind placebo controlled trial to tell you that falling off a cliff is injurious to your health.

There comes a time when basic reasoning trumps the need for studies. One fact you do not seem to be able to get into your head is that a toxin is toxic. Why do we have toxins in our vaccines when there are alternatives? I do not see a need for a debate. We need the vaccine manufacturers to come up with a plan for manufacturing toxin free vaccines. AND DO IT NOW.

— Posted by Kevin
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7.
April 17th,
2008
8:52 pm

TPP–Why do you keep stoking this issue with post after post?

It is extremely counterproductive to society to scare parents against vaccinating their kids when there isn’t one iota of credible evidence, and you know it. Shame on you.

Frivolous lawsuits such as this almost put Dow out of business, having to pay millions in settlements by pointing the finger at silicone breast implants as a cause for lupus, again, without a scintilla of credible evidence.

Well, over 10 years later, guess what’s more popular then ever? Silicone breast implants.

— Posted by jack
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8.
April 17th,
2008
10:10 pm

Tara - I’ll go further than Jack. I do think this needs a cooling off period but after that why not a slightly more balanced presentation?

You’ve done 3 posts on the same topic and 2 of them on the Polings. Why don’t you air some of the other side? Why not find out what was wrong with Wakefield’s original Lancet study, how it came to be funded through litigation and how it was retracted. As well as the effect it had on British vaccination rates?

And you could do an interview with a reputable immunologist posing some of the questions raised here. I have no doubt they can answer them.

— Posted by Further than Jack
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9.
April 17th,
2008
10:36 pm

I fail to understand why people like Juanita attack parents who are anti vaccine almost as if we were criminal. We simply want to exercise our right to make health care decisions for our children. If you believe so strongly in the “protection” vaccines provide, then vaccinate your children and you won’t have to worry about them catching anything. Unless you don’t really believe in said “protection”? I’m sorry, but you just can’t have it both ways.

— Posted by Daisy
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10.
April 17th,
2008
10:50 pm

Look, people, get a grip. It’s just possible–just entirely possible–that’s it’s not a vaccine company conspiracy, not too much fiber, not environmental polution, not moonbeams in March. It could definitely be genetic, possibly more than one gene. What’s definite is that more kids AND adults are being diagnosed as “being on the autistic spectrum” now. When my daughter (straight Kanner syndrome) was diagnosed 41 years ago, only severe autism was being diagnosed as such, and even then kids were often termed schizophrenic (some doctors though autism was childhood schizophrenia) and mental retardation. Many kids were simply institutionalized; no one took data on them, no one heard from them again. Now, autism is almost fashionable. Silicon Valley and Redmond in my state of Washington are teeming with Aspies. People are “coming out” with autism, and very slightly affected children as being diagnosed as being on the spectrum.Whenever I disclose that my daughter was born with autism, I’m met with a starry-eyed “Oh, that’s fascinating!” To us long-time parents, it has all the hallmarks of a fad. Especially since we’ve gone through so many fad treatments over the years, none of which have proven out.

And you’re all wondering why there’s an autism epidemic? Let’s call it what it is: a diagnosis epidemic. That’s not good, that’s not bad: it just IS. And let’s recognize it for what it is.

— Posted by Sally
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11.
April 18th,
2008
1:04 am

thank you jack and ftj,

tpp, you cannot call yourself unbiased just because you throw out the words ‘autism and vaccines…discuss amongst yourselves’ and leave the room! to me it suggests a hidden agenda with all of these articles. Also, I am convinced that there are many parents of autistic children that DO NOT believe vaccines harmed their child. Where are they? Can you not find them?

FROM TPP — When reporters write about the IOM report that says there is no link between autism and vaccines, they are accused of bias from one side. When we write that the government has settled a case with the family of a child believed to have been harmed by vaccines, we are accused of bias from the other side. I have learned over the years, that no matter what I write about this issue, the debate is so polarized that somebody will be unhappy. I find the case of the Poling family interesting and newsworthy. The government lawyers settled this case, acknowledging that this child had an underlying mitochondrial disorder that appears to have been aggravated by vaccines. Clearly at least a small number of people are harmed by vaccines, and now there is a call for more research into mitochondrial disorders. The central player in this debate is a doctor who has had all his children vaccinated, believes in the overall public health benefit of vaccines and is asking for additional research to help identify subgroups of people who may be harmed by vaccines. Why is this so controversial? How is it biased to report and explore this latest development? And in terms of my personal bias, my daughter has received all the vaccines recommended for children by the CDC.

— Posted by Ankur
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12.
April 18th,
2008
3:38 am

As a parent of a child who is diagoised with Asbergers(Pdd) I am curious as to the cause of my son’s condition, we have no other family members with it, so it can’t be genetic.What could have caused it? My son is lucky though he interacts normally within the family and with people he knows, it is only with strangers and his peers that he has aproblem making connections with. He is in special education, gets A’s and B’s and is even designing a simple computer game, that someday he hopes to share with other special kids like him. My son is my treasure, and I hope that all other parents of autistic kids feel the same way about their special kids!

— Posted by robin
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13.
April 18th,
2008
6:39 am

To #4. Before 1994 people with mild autism were NOT DIAGNOSED! My son was born in 1982 and was not vaccinated. He had a healthy diet. He was diagnosed with autism in 1990 but it took until about 1994 before he got appropriate services from the school system. There are plenty of adults walking around who are on the “autistic spectrum” without a diagnosis. In fact the phrase “autistic spectrum” was not even heard of before that time.

I’m all for healthy food, but correlation is not causation! Many people (who make life very interesting I might add) have been on the autistic spectrum for a very long time. We all know these people. They just haven’t been labeled autistic.

— Posted by betsy
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14.
April 18th,
2008
9:22 am

I did not attack them as criminals. I merely questioned how this particular doctor could not care enough about public health to see the effect he was contributing to.

But since you mention it - isn’t causing exposure of a helpless baby to a deadly disease criminal? I think it is. That mother never had a choice about vaccinating, her baby is too young. If she loses that innocent child because of others’ not vaccinating she would have to be a saint not to think them criminal.

— Posted by Juanita
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15.
April 18th,
2008
9:37 am

Sorry Tara I agree with Ankur and the others. You’ve clearly milked this from one side only or you’d have had at least 1 out of all your posts and comments that tried to give an immunologist’s expert view on all this. I am not an immunologist and I can’t just call one up and get them to go give some facts on a NYT blog. But you could try doing that. Then you wouldn’t be just egging on the hysteria.

The fact you’ve vaccinated your children shows you are just being hypocritical. Got a nice popular hysterical blog out of it all but quietly go off and sensibly vaccinate your own children.

Juanita said Dr Poling was irresponsible. I’d add you to that I’m afraid. You really need to at least air both sides. You’re basically expecting laypeople to put the case for immunology and that’s not fair. Anyone who wants the complex truth can’t just look it up on the internet, it takes years of training.

Please at least ask an immunologist about this and get back to us.

FROM TPP –In my original piece I linked to Dr. Offit’s op-ed piece, which you can read again here .

— Posted by lucinda
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16.
April 18th,
2008
10:38 am

Tara, thanks for letting my comment through even though it was really to you not the point of the blog. I don’t think linking to Dr Offit’s article BEFORE all the comments is enough. His article got little attention and there was never any chance for the other side to give some facts after all that frenzy. When you did the podcast you could have interviewed Dr Offit or another expert for 5 mins too. We need to ask someone who IS an expert in vaccines some questions clearly since Dr Poling admits he doesn’t know. That’s what I mean by responsible.

— Posted by lucinda
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17.
April 18th,
2008
11:19 am

I think the issue here is not Dr. Poling, but on the fact that vaccines can cause autism. It can, as shown by Hannah Poling and many other children. The vaccines cause a stress to their system, and due to an underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, it essentially pushes them over the edge. This condition is no where near as rare as the CDC makes it out to be, and could be far more common than any of us know. This is a genetic condition, yes, but vaccines seem to be aggravating the MT disorder and spiraling kids into autism.

It is not irresponsible of Dr. Poling in the least. It seems that any doctor who posts findings acknowledging the link is immediately tarred and feathered by the medical industry as causing a health crisis and hysteria, as seen with Dr. Wakefield and now with Dr. Poling. He is not saying “Don’t vaccinate your kids; they’ll get autism if you do!” He is saying that we need to study this further, and he is informing the public that this is a health issue, which is what any responsible doctor should do. If any of you would read the posts of these people you call “hysterical,” you’d realize that very few of them are calling for a removal of vaccines. They just want safer vaccines, and they want studies on the efficacy of mulitple vaccines in such a short period of time, something the scientific community is refusing to do for some reason.

Alex, I am the father of a vaccine injured child. I am also a lawyer. Many parents can’t sue anyone because of a neat little clause in the Homeland Security Act that protects the pharmaceutical industry. So, the government created the Vaccine Court to address vaccine injuries. There are currently only 5000 test cases in the court, which is no where near to addressing the number of potential lawsuits that should be happening. I can’t sue the Pharma companies due to the Statute of Limitations, so how are we doing frivolous lawsuits when not a single case of vaccine injury has been heard by a legitimate court other than the vaccine court, which was funded 20 years ago?

Sally, some ASD’s are genetic. So how do you explain the regressive autism of parents who, after getting their child vaccinated, watched them go into convulsions, high fever, develop an encepalopathy, and eventually spiral into autism? Dr. Poling, and myself, have the medical proof of this. I have my son’s medical records that prove this.

lucinda, How is Tara being irresponsible? It is the duty of responsible Doctors and media to report on potential health crises. You’d like them to inform you if there was an Anthrax outbreak, wouldn’t you?

Yes, Juanita, exposing a helpless baby to a deadly disease is criminal. But we do that with vaccines. I’ll tell you what else is criminal; knowingly causing brain damage to a helpless baby.

Alex Plank, I’m glad you are having such a good life. It is truly inspiring to know that some people diagnosed with this condition are productive and happy. It gives the parents of children who don’t have high functioning ASD children hope. But a surprisingly small number of children on the spectrum are high functioning. The norm is children who will never grow up to be productive members of society.

What you people should be worried about, instead of frivolous lawsuits, is the cost of raising these children when their parents are gone. This will come out of your paychecks, your taxes. We need to find a way to prevent this from happening to other kids. And THAT is what Dr. Poling is trying to do. Instead of trying to discredit him, listen to him.

— Posted by Nate's Dad
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18.
April 18th,
2008
11:37 am

Nate’s Dad I just want to get something straight. Are you actually saying Wakefield wasn’t a fraud? How do you explain the retraction? The Lancet decrying the research? The lawsuit about the bribery? The sordid ties with the plaintiff lawyers?

Defending Dr Poling is one thing. Defending Wakefield is QUITE another. I am a UK lawyer. It was a shameful day for the profession when a lawyer essentially bribed Wakefield to falsify his results.

The cost of an undervaccinated population ALSO comes out of everyone’s paychecks and it is a way bigger figure. Beware before you start using Wakefield to defend Poling. You do him no service at all.

— Posted by Blimey it's a Brit
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19.
April 18th,
2008
11:39 am

Surely Tara it is proof enough that its one sided when only one viewpoint feels unrepresented by its slew of evidence. Nate’s Dad proves the point.

— Posted by lucinda
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20.
April 18th,
2008
11:58 am

Blimey, admittedly, I’m getting quite a bit of the filtered information concerning the Wakefield case because I am in America, which is also why I didn’t elaborate.

lucinda, I believe I was quite polite to you and everyone on this post. Perhaps you can elaborate on your statement?

— Posted by Nate's Dad
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21.
April 18th,
2008
12:15 pm

More thoughts:

1) Each parent has the responsibility for doing the research on both sides before they make decisions that would alter the ’status quo’ in vaccinating their child.

2) There are several sources for parents to do this and most should also dig deeper, like looking at the VAERS data, and looking at publicly available meeting minutes from vaccine safety committee meetings, as an example, and looking at statistics of not-vaccinating, and what risks are posed, etc.

3) I’m getting the sense that those who are pro-vax seem to think of those who are holding back or waiting longer as anti-vax, which is not true.

4) Most people think the vaccination schedule (which apparently went from 10 to 36 vaccines in young children) is just too much too soon.

5) Those of us posting probably had all our vaccinations (defintely 10 and perhaps less) and we seem to be doing a lot better than the current kids being diagnosed today. I never heard of such diagnoses growing up. It was such a minuscule percentage of people. And we can’t just say this is becuase we’ve defined more conditions and categorized people in those ‘appropriate’ categories better.

6) Change is threatening to organizations and people and I think that’s what’s happening. Vaccines have been a remarkable part of the 20th & 21st century, but I can’t see the downside to relaxing the chedule for the benefit of babies/toddler immune systems to mature a bit more before we go in and give 5-9 vaxes per visit.

7)Multiple vaxes per visit is the first thing that needs to be revisited, followed, I think by a more relaxed vaccination schedule.

8)Why is reducing the # of vaxes per visit and waiting longer to vaccinate - over a protracted period of time with a child an issue (with collaboration from the child’s doctor) - it’s common sense & would address some of the issues of families not vaxing at all.

If you really do the deep dive research on both sides of this issue, I think it’s the best and right next step to take.

— Posted by Sarah
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22.
April 18th,
2008
12:30 pm

And for the one who posted about our food system and diets. Yes I think we need to look at what pesticides do and a whole host of other environmental issues impacting what we ingest.

However, back to the point I made about our ‘wonder’ years. I used to eat twinkies, spaghetti-o’s, bologna, wonder bread, captain crunch and whole lot of other junk I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole today, let alone give to a child. The generation who grew up in the 70s did not have the enormous leap in PDD’s that this one has, and our diets were for the most part horrid.

— Posted by Sarah
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23.
April 18th,
2008
12:39 pm

Sarah,

Your point 3 is an overstatement. Those who are saying we should delay vaccines significantly are actually saying we should put our kids at risk of these diseases for additional months or years. Seen like that it matters. Especially when the risk isn’t just to THESE unvaccinated children but all the people (adults and children) who can’t be vaccinated at all.

I don’t think that your point 4 is right either. First of all I don’t think that the anti-schedule crowd are the majority, they’re just the loudest. We still have a majority following the schedules thank God. Secondly who determines “too much too soon?” That, even in Poling’s podcast is NOT a scientific expert opinion. It’s a layperson’s gut feeling. I would guess most of my clients have a gut feeling of their best defence to liability too, and they’re mostly wrong. Lawyers are experts in the law, so ask us what your best defence is don’t make it up yourself. Same goes for medical research.

Re your final point it has been conclusively proven that sticking to schedule not only means minimum exposure to epidemic risks, it also maintains compliance. Once the schedule becomes the exception and people mostly make it up as they go along you’ll find that compliance disappears and most people become insufficiently vaccinated. That’s why the schedule is important. IF vaccines only affected the people who received them it wouldn’t matter - parents could put their own children at risk if they wanted. But the whole concept of vaccines means compliance is essential to protect the community.

Another logical problem with your final point is that it assumes these problems with vaccines will be resolved by waiting. What’s the difference between waiting until 2 for MMR? What magical event happens then that makes something ok that wasn’t ok at 1? There was extensive testing done to determine the safe age for MMR (I can’t speak for other vaccines but MMR has had loads of coverage here). It’s safe from 9 months yet different countries have it scheduled for 1 year to 15 months to ensure compliance. In epdemics it is not uncommon to start vaccinating 9 month olds with it. No increased incidence of autism in those populations.

My problem with the anti-whatever group (I won’t quibble about how to describe them) is that they haven’t shown any evidence that outweighs the public health concerns. They haven’t even proven the link to Hannah Poling’s case and she’s an exceptional case. They certainly haven’t shown how spacing or delaying makes a jot of difference so why would we support those actions?

Sorry - just as I don’t believe a pro se litigant does a good job or arguing their legal case because they don’t understand the law I don’t think that lay people make much sense arguing about immunology.

As a parent myself I want to know what the experts think and your points are not those which experts agree with.

— Posted by Blimey it's a Brit
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24.
April 18th,
2008
1:01 pm

Blimey it’s a Brit,

Appreciate your response. I am not a lawyer and cannot speak legalese. I do have a graduate degree and spent many years in DC, working in and around our government. I don’t know how we’re ever going to evolve this debate but evolving is what needs to happen. What we really need are suggestions and recommendations for moving forward in a way that can address the issues head on without creating a public safety crisis.

— Posted by Sarah
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25.
April 18th,
2008
1:22 pm

Another reason to get off this vaccine/autism issue is to target the reasearch money in another direction.

We should not waste another red cent on autism/vaccine connection. There’s no smoking gun. It’s a dead horse. There’s no controversy.

And TPP, you can’t forever hide behind being a reporter. Eventually, every good reporter weighs the evidence and and writes objective articles that come to the right conclusion. For you, that time is long overdue.

— Posted by jack
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26.
April 18th,
2008
1:48 pm

If you read the original post, there was no cause/ effect relationship to the girl’s autism and vaccines. That clown that they call DOCTOR saw some deep pockets after the young girl was found to suffer some other metabloic GENETIC DISORDER.
I hope he sleeps well at night profiteering off the child.

— Posted by Glenn
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27.
April 18th,
2008
1:52 pm

Nate’s Dad I only meant that you, and those on your side of the argument, don’t think Tara is being biased in her presentation. That in itself shows the bias towards you. She hasn’t presented the other side or given an expert a chance to do so. Overt support from your side in the face of very mild criticism from those like me who aren’t tied one way or the other is some proof that the 2 bites of the cherry to Dr Poling and none to a qualified expert is biased. I didn’t mean you were impolite to me personally at all. Or to anyone.

— Posted by lucinda
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28.
April 18th,
2008
1:53 pm

Sarah, I believe we already have “suggestions and recommendations for moving forward in a way that can address the issues head on without creating a public safety crisis.” It’s called a vaccine schedule. Or do you think that the CDC and other experts just invented the vaccine schedule without considering any of the issues involved?

— Posted by cgw
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29.
April 18th,
2008
1:54 pm

Aspergers autism is a specific behavioral variation that has been lumped under the AUTISM umbrella. As I have learned, Computer geek, professors and dentists are the people that demosntrate this syndrome teh most. Of course, I was mortified when I learned this since I am a dentist- and I truly see a lot of the symptoms in collegues at conventions.

So let your child be a computer geek - and remember BILL GATES and EINSTEIN have been said to be ASPERGERS

— Posted by Paul
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30.
April 18th,
2008
2:12 pm

Sarah, agreed. I stress again I am NOT an immunologist. I suspect though that if vaccines are going to hurt someone they’re going to do so whenever they’re given and whether combined or not. So much testing when into the ages and doses and combinations and we have decades of real world experience with most of them that it is unlikely there will be proof that somehow a 2 year old can safely have a vaccine that a 1 year old can’t. I’ve never seen an assertion by the scientific community supporting that.

So what is needed I think is to actually prove that the vaccines are the cause. Since it is impossible to 100% disprove the negative (though it’s been done as near as can be)… the onus has to be on those with the positive hypothesis. Prove you’ll be hurt by it and we’ll exempt you. Let’s hope no more than 5% of the population gets that exemption or we can kiss goodbye to eradication programs.

Until then I am afraid the best thing we can do for everyone is to keep vaccinating on schedule. We have no proof it is harmful and plenty of proof it is beneficial.

And I know that’s not an answer that the anti-schedule people will like, but I’m not saying it to be against them. I’m saying it because it is the only logical response.

I guess if I were in government I’d be throwing money at independent researchers to get them to try their darnedest to prove the anti-schedule case. Then when that money’s wasted because they fail at least we can say public health was not compromised for no reason. The trouble with that is that I don’t think they’ll ever be satisfied. No matter how much money is spent on researching their theory, if it is never proven they’ll always want more money to try to prove it. Where do we draw the line and say sorry guys you’re just wrong? I think the scientific community would say we’re at that point already. Not that we should stop researching autism but that we should stop looking to vaccines for the source of the problem.

But politically that’s not viable because if these people aren’t forced to vaccinate (and no developed country can really do that) then public health will spiral downhill in the hysteria they create.

I don’t have a solution - but I beg those against hte schedule not to create public hysteria. It discredits you with the scientists you need to research your case. It damages public health. And ultimately it damages your children too because you are the people who need the rest of us to vaccinate.

How do you stop irrational public hysteria? Now if I knew that I’d be running the country right?

— Posted by Blimey it's a Brit
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31.
April 18th,
2008
2:23 pm

Tara you have not been posting my comments or responding to them privately. I agree with the above that you are biased here and stirring up controversy for the sake of traffic to your blog more than to try to get to the bottom of this question of what the Polings have to do with anything. You wrote:

“The central player in this debate is a doctor who has had all his children vaccinated, believes in the overall public health benefit of vaccines and is asking for additional research to help identify subgroups of people who may be harmed by vaccines. Why is this so controversial? How is it biased to report and explore this latest development? And in terms of my personal bias, my daughter has received all the vaccines recommended for children by the CDC.”

And the central player and his wife are litigants, and the father doctor wrote a paper used to support all this mitochondrial-antivaccine fear while his was a litigant and didn’t disclose his conflict of interest on his paper.

That’s not worth noting in your blog?? Why not?

His wife, Nurse Poling, is also a lawyer who went knee deep in autism nuttery as soon as their daughter was diagnosed with autism. They exposed her to several “alternative” therapies including one that can do tremendous harm, chelation. Are Hannah’s seizures related to the “treatments” she got while her parents were deep into DAN!? Dr. Poling was considering becoming a DAN! doctor at one point. DAN! is directly associated with the death of Abubakar Tariq Nadama (do you know who he was?) and with the tormenting of thousands of kids with difficult, stressful and even painful useless “therapies”.

Are you above criticism? I want to know why you aren’t showing the other side of the Polings? I gave you links to where the mom indicated antivaccine sympathies and where she admitted that a wild virus would have done the very same thing to her daughter that the fever from a vaccine seems to have done.

Dr. Poling has huge baggage and from what I can see you are pretending he doesn’t. But it makes for a pretty story, doesn’t it? Makes for blog traffic, doesn’t it?

FROM TPP — You submitted your first comment at 2:23 Friday and it’s now 3:56 p.m. on Friday. To accuse me of bias for not posting your comment immediately seems pretty unreasonable.

— Posted by Ms. Clark
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32.
April 18th,
2008
3:17 pm

To Sarah, #21; the oft-quoted 10 to 36 increase is in fact quite misleading, as I tried to explain here:

http://traumabay.blogspot.com/2008/02/are-we-really-thi s-upset-about-vaccines.html

Although I agree that it makes sense to extend vaccine schedules in many cases, the ads that came out with the 10 to 36 increase were alarmist and in some cases inaccurate (Rotateq is not even a shot, for example). In addition, the actual number of live viruses has not increased by much, and the new schedule includes some improved vaccines that are thought to be safer.

— Posted by aaron
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33.
April 18th,
2008
3:22 pm

Nate’s Dad - I hate to steal this from the outcast Jillyflower but I see she’s dug up a couple of things I’m familiar with as a UK resident. Brian Deer is very well respected and did a truly huge job investigating the links (that is the money and people links not the immunology).

http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2007/07/andrew-wakefield -mmr-autism-and-gmc.html

http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

Americans need to know more about him since he now lives in the US and no doubt is a parasite of the autism groups.

— Posted by Blimey it's a Brit
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34.
April 18th,
2008
3:42 pm

Tara, Slate gets it.
http://autism-news-beat.com/?p=50

You need to understand that there’s more to this than meets the eye. The Polings are litigants and they are helping fellow litigants with their news conferences and they are working hand in glove with their lawyer Cliff Shoemaker. Someone leaked their private documents to David Kirby. How about asking them about that? It’s a big con game. A big con game, and you are helping the to promote their agenda here.

How about trying to show the other side????
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=778

Cliff Shoemaker’s apparently unconstituional use of a subpoena to chill an investigation into his apparent abuse of the vaccine court system.
http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/150/

Shoemaker is the Poling’s lawyer.

Now there’s a story. It’s just not one you are willing to help expose. You are too busy playing nice with Dr. Poling who is just such a nice doctor man. So polite.

— Posted by Ms. Clark
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35.
April 18th,
2008
4:11 pm

Here are some things that come to mind -

(1) People were not dying in droves in the 1980s so reverting to that schedule should not causse major problems. I think people like ‘Blimey its a brit’ are using scare tactics.

(2) Why do people care about mercury in tuna, but not vaccines? Is there truly any safe amount of mercury? And, most importantly since there are alternatives what is wrong with DEMANDING that they be removed. There is only an upside and no downside.

(3) The multitide of flu vaccines is stupid. First of these vaccines were not even effective this year. Secondly, they contain mercury. Thirdly they are compulsarily given to pregnant women.

(4) Spacing out vaccines will not cause a crisis because in the long run on average the same number of people will be vaccinated. Non compliance will not be an issue if vaccines are safe.

(5) There are studies that show autism rate has gone down after thimerosal was removed. Search google video.

(6) Basically there is no downside to producing safer vaccines. Even if only 0.00001% benifit it is still worth it. People will be willing to pay for this even for the small benifit.

As a side note, how many of you know that most dental fillings (silver amalgam = silver + mercury) release 20-30 mcg of mercury into the bloodstream every day? Why do dentists still use these? They are banned in Japan and now Norway. I am of the opinion that the FDA/CDC are not doing enough to protect the average citizen.And with laws being passed not allowing one to sue, there is no justice either. This will result in people boycotting organized medicine. This is a crisis of faith. And the govermnment/medical authoirties need to fix it, sonner rather than later. The only way to do is acceptance of guilt/ reimbursement to the victims and fixing the problems for good. We have already been lied to on every level by this administration. Why should we trust them now?

— Posted by Kevin
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36.
April 18th,
2008
4:50 pm

Kevin you raise good questions. Lucky for you I’m stuck in an airport :-)

Why don’t we revert to the 1980s? Well we didn’t vaccinate against varicella back then for a start - at least not in the UK, and we now know a lot more about both severe complications and lifelong consequences of varicella. To NOT add it to the schedule seems ridiculous. I’m sure the same could be said for many other vaccines. Meningicoccal is one that I know kills babies every year and is standard practice in some countries but NOT on the schedule in the US as I understand. So I think if you look at the public benefit test for each added vaccine you’d find there were good reasons to add them.

Second point - elemental mercury and organic mercury are actually quite different. I’ve read a case where the plaintiff was silly enough to try to argue that thimersol effects were proven by evidence of the effect of elemental mercury - didn’t wash with either the experts or the court. I’m not saying thimersol is great and you should drink it by the gallon, just that it ISN’T the same as elemental mercury in tuna which was what you were alleging.

Another point is that in some countries thimersol was never added in the first place. And they have not got different rates of any of the relevant problems. Why would the US think thimersol is the problem when this is the case? I’m not sure.

On the flu vaccine - as far as I know there’s 1 each year, developed based on the strains found in Asia because that has historically been the source of flu viruses in Europe and the US. The effectiveness will always vary depending on which strains make it into international transmission paths (airline passengers!). But since some immunity is usually conferred on related strains, that’s still beneficial. So this year’s fluvax wasn’t AS effective as in prior years, but it was still partially effective. Unlike other vaccines the flu vaccine never pretended to be perfectly effective because of the different strains mutating so fast. It only ever prtended to be effective against the chosen strains and with some bonus protection against related ones.

So it isn’t the same rationale for a vacine as MMR for example. Thank God measles doesn’t mutate every year like influenza.

The flu vaccine I got in the UK did not contain thimersol. That seems to be a US only issue. Again - therefore unlikely to be the source of the problem since autism rates don’t vary that much internationally.

Finally - I have friends who have had kids in the US. Nothing is compulsory in the US! OK at least nothing like vaccines is compulsory. It is strongly recommended yes, for good immunological reasons. Notably it is actively NOT recommended in the first trimester. A friend of mine had to get her flu vaccine during my visit because she had to wait until later in the pregnancy.

Non compliance is an issue EVEN when there is no hysteria about vaccines. I know there are studies on this in the UK. Again I can’t imagine the American mind is so very different.

I’m quite happy to pay for safer vaccines. How is that defined? By what standard is it judged? I think the key issue here is we can’t say something is “safer” untl a risk of the current kind is proven and then eliminated. The first step hasn’t even been done.

Well then the fun stuff:

I must remember to quote google video in my next client file as a source of legal authority. Surely you are joking! Ditto you must be joking about amalgam. That furphy has been around for decades. The only reason dentists switch to the new kind is it makes them more money! Amalgam isn’t banned in the UK and we have no problems.

From TPP — Hey — “furphy” — that is a new word for me. Never heard it before but I like it. Just in case it’s new to others, a furphy, I have learned today, is Australian slang for a rumor, or an erroneous or improbable story.

— Posted by Blimey it's a Brit
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37.
April 18th,
2008
4:55 pm

It is an interesting question - no doubt there IS a crisis of faith. Who can solve it?

option 1 Do we have to prove every negative proposition to the people in fear? Is that even possible?

option 2 Or do they have to accept the scientific consenus? If they simply get pig-headed about that no matter how much evidence is against them then what do we do?

Seems a classic hold-up problem to me. They have all the power to destroy the vaccine system yet we have no channel to convince them or make them comply. Maybe some economists out there have a solution?

Kevin is obviously in a faith crisis about this Administration. But what about the point made before - that overseas they don’t have the same kinds of government yet their scientists conclude the same as ours that there is no link. Do you think the CIA is paying them or something crazy like that? How do you explain that this is a worldwide vaccine hysteria yet the arguments made are nearly all only relevant to the US?

— Posted by lucinda
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38.
April 18th,
2008
5:08 pm

Haha Tara - that’s right! I work in a UK firm literally SURROUNDED by Australians. There must be about a million in London and most are probably lawyers. I knew I’d picked that up somehwere - I love it too!

— Posted by Blimey it's a Brit
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39.
April 18th,
2008
7:29 pm

It should be up to each and every parent to do the risk benefit analysis and decide when, if and what to vaccinate. There should be a medical, religious or philosophical exemption available to those parents who decide to opt out.

That’s it.

— Posted by Murasaki
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40.
April 18th,
2008
7:55 pm

Blimey it’s a Brit wrote:

“Until then I am afraid the best thing we can do for everyone is to keep vaccinating on schedule. We have no proof it is harmful and plenty of proof it is beneficial.”

Hey Blimey,

First, the LAW is proof of SAFETY – not “no proof of harm” and/or whether it’s “beneficial.”

Second, tell you what – I’ll make a deal with you (and this won’t necessitate the government spending one additional red cent on research). You show me – right now – one study demonstrating the SAFETY of injecting mercury (at any level) into a small infant and I’ll fly you over the pond and wear a sign admitting that I was inducing “public hysteria” because I foolishly thought mercury was unsafe to be injecting into infants.

Deal?

Kelli Ann Davis

— Posted by Kelli Ann Davis
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41.
April 18th,
2008
8:08 pm

Tara,
Thanks so much for taking the time to interview Jon Poling. I know Jon and he’s an extremely thoughtful man and a great dad. To those who would criticize him, you need to understand all the disincentives someone like Jon has to come forward on an issue like this. He and his wife have been truly courageous in their actions.

But let’s keep things simple.
1. There has been an explosion in autism in this country. Anyone who suggests ths is an artifact of better diagnosis is simply delusional. they want to believe that everthings’s OK. Just talk to the tens of thousands of affected families. Everything’s not OK, it’s a crisis. Thse of you who deny there’s a problem are harming children. You need to stop.
2. For those adults who have self-identified themselves as autistic and have developed a sense of identity from their autism: good for you. The day my daughter has the cognitive and social skills you have to turn her deficits into an argument social for social movement, I will have a party. In the meantime, please don’t pretend your identity issues have anything to do with the agony of parents who have nightmares worrying what will happen to their disabled child when they are gone. The confusion of the issues of full syndrome autism with putative (and likely borderline) Asperger’s syndrome is an unfortunate distraction from far more serious issues.
3. Anyone who wants to draw attention to infectious disease risk–some of which is quite real, albeit exagerrated–needs to simply compare the numbers. How many children are at real risk from infectious disease as compared to chronic disease? The answer is obvious. The 21st century childhood public health issue is an epidemic of chronic disease. The sooner we face that reality and deal with it, the faster we will help the families and children who are in peril.

The New York Times has been slow to deal with this problem. Kudos to you for taking it up Tara. History will judge all of us for how we behave in the midst of this crisis.
Mark

— Posted by Mark
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42.
April 18th,
2008
8:24 pm

Why are the pro-vaccine people so angry toward the Polings? Why go to such lengths to bash people who are uncovering the problems with vaccines? It’s like smokers attacking lung cancer victims for quitting. Absurd. The fear among the vaccinate at all costs crowd is palpable. Probably because many of them have vested financial interests. Or guilt so profound over their own autistic kids they have nothing left but anger.

If you trust vaccines you have nothing to worry about. No one is taking them away. Go get your kid 50 at once. Get ten flu shots a year. Leave the Polings and other families alone.

— Posted by Go away
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43.
April 18th,
2008
8:30 pm

Aaron #32 says, “RotoTeq isn’t even a shot.” Vaccines can be adminstered orally, nasally or via injection. They are still vaccines. That’s why they are on the AAP VACCINE schedule.

Note below where they say, “don’t take the vaccine in you’re allergic to any of the ingredients.” When was the last time a pediatrician shared with a parent the ingredients?

RotaTeq is a vaccine that can help protect your infant against rotavirus, an extremely common and highly contagious stomach virus that can cause fever, vomiting and diarrhea. The vaccine is given by mouth at 3 different times, each about one to two months apart. Nearly all children become infected with rotavirus by the time they are 5 years old.
RotaTeq helps protect against diarrhea and vomiting only if they are caused by rotavirus. It does not protect against diarrhea and vomiting that are caused by anything else.
RotaTeq may not fully protect all children that get the vaccine, and if your child already has the virus it will not help them.
Important Safety Information
The most common side effects reported were diarrhea, vomiting, fever, runny nose, sore throat, wheezing or coughing, and ear infection. Ask your doctor or health care professional for a more complete list of side effects. Call your child’s doctor right away if your child has vomiting, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, blood in their stool or change in their bowel movements, as these may be signs of a serious and life-threatening condition known as intussusception. It is important to contact your health care professional if your child has any of these symptoms at any time after vaccination. RotaTeq should not be given to infants who are allergic to any part of the vaccine.

— Posted by Aaron Are You Kidding
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44.
April 18th,
2008
8:35 pm

Nate’s Dad–

You are a lawyer–please do some research. This non-lawyer can spot a number of legal mistakes in your statement:

“Many parents can’t sue anyone because of a neat little clause in the Homeland Security Act that protects the pharmaceutical industry. So, the government created the Vaccine Court to address vaccine injuries.”

The addition to the HSA was removed. Even without that fact, the Vaccine Court was created about 14 years previous to the HSA.

People are allowed to take their cases to civil court–they just have to go through the vaccine court first.

TPP: this statement, I believe, is incorrect:
” The government lawyers settled this case, acknowledging that this child had an underlying mitochondrial disorder that appears to have been aggravated by vaccines.”

At this point, I believe that the government has conceded liability. I do not think that the actual damages have been agreed upon and awarded.

— Posted by Holy Cow, It's a Yank!
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45.
April 18th,
2008
8:59 pm

“(1) People were not dying in droves in the 1980s so reverting to that schedule should not causse major problems. I think people like ‘Blimey its a brit’ are using scare tactics”

As one example, we can point to the measles outbreaks in the early 1990’s. It was determined that the single Measles vaccine was not enough, and a booster was added. People died in those outbreaks. Does the number of people have to reach “droves” to make a difference in this discussion?

This is a key point–people are asking to throw away over 20 years of research and, in some cases, hard won knowledge based on ‘gut feelings’. Going back to the 1980’s schedule would be an experiment. If it were to happen, who would take responsibility for the people who may die because of it?

“(5) There are studies that show autism rate has gone down after thimerosal was removed”

Well, instead of Google, how about a journal article? I’d bet you’ve heard of Schecter and Grether’s paper. I’d bet you have some standard replies already prepared about it. But, mercury exposure due to vaccines went down in California and the “rates” of autism kept climbing.

My suspicion is that you are relying on a very flawed study put out a few years ago–one that used the same type of data (but earlier) that Schecter and Grether used. I.e. Schecter and Grether are more recent and more accurate.

When Google requires peer-review for videos, perhaps we can use them.

But, as usual, all these details are getting away from the original subject: Dr. Poling’s interview.

— Posted by Holy Cow, it's a Yank!
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46.
April 18th,
2008
9:35 pm

Just look at the hostility here from people afraid of disease. It’s primal, and justifiable. Diseases maim and kill.

But fearmongering is blocking advancements in science, in immunology. Fear of scaring people away from vaccines is no reason to write off countless children as collateral damage in the war on disease.

Vaccine injury must be acknowledged and studied, in order to prevent it. For example when sexual abuse by clergy was widely publicized, churches altered policies and countless children were spared from harm. The process was painful, but necessary.

Our civil society can no longer continue pretending that vaccine injury does not exist. One look at the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System provides adequate cognitive dissonance, illustrating the paradox that a product intended to improve health has had the opposite effect in some children. In a way, it’s a basic marketing follow-up failure.

Look, too, at these children’s lab work showing vaccine-strain measles in the brain and gut, toxic heavy metals, antibodies to myelin basic protein, immune dysregulation and suppression, and a host of ailments that emerged immediately after vaccination. Watch family videos of animated infants and toddlers who a week later look like limp dolls, switched off.

This needlessly polarized public debate may never have occurred if the U.S. Centers for Disease Control had enacted an appropriate administrative mechanism for handling vaccine injury reports – providing treatment for children and support for families.

It’s not too late to give all children equal respect and treatment by public health administrators. The NVAC working group meetings could start that process, as long as pharma-funded faux consumer groups are kept at bay.

Adjustments must be made to the U.S. vaccination schedule. Just as society makes dietary accommodations for peanut allergies, the CDC should not force a potentially toxic product onto a susceptible population. Vaccines are already contraindicated for people allergic to eggs.

These sick children deserve equal time in media as is given to children affected by vaccine-preventable diseases. Intimidating rhetoric, false assurances and creative fiction on Internet blogs will not magically wave away this non-genetic “autism” epidemic.

Don’t wait for FOIA documents or 4,800 Omnibus court verdicts or statements from artibitrary authority figures. We all must reclaim our intellectual curiosity – strip away fear and replace it with compassion for these sick, vaccine-injured children.

These children are worth the investment of research time and funding. Morality demands it.

— Posted by nhokkanen
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47.
April 18th,
2008
10:08 pm

lucinda wrote in #37:
“It is an interesting question - no doubt there IS a crisis of faith. Who can solve it?”

I think that the only people that can solve this, lucinda, are the doctors and medical institution that broke the faith of the American people.

Let me explain my reasoning. Doctors tend to treat people who have concerns about vaccines like paranoid conspiracy theorists. Many pediatricians will “fire” parents if they even ask about the vaccine/autism connection. Parents have concerns, and these concerns should not be dismissed. Doctors and the medical industry in general condescend and antagonize these parents, so of course the parents become disillusioned. I’m not saying that all doctors are like this, but I think it is important to note that many are. No one likes to be treated like an idiot. Doctors, in many cases, are arrogant, and they have a right to be, somewhat; they have the education and the experience. They need to learn to diplomatically address these parents’ concern.

The only people who can allay this crisis of faith is, sadly, the people who caused it.

Please, don’t take it that I’m being rude to you, lucinda. I’m merely giving you my observation.

Anyhow, excellent post, and good points there. Thank you.

— Posted by Nate's Dad
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48.
April 18th,
2008
10:29 pm

It is really fun to read all the vehement posts by the doctors and lawyers here against the “anti-vaccine” crowd. I’m a scientist, didn’t believe all this vaccine-autism linkage stuff at first (and not sure if I believe it now), but I do know that the scientific proof of the safety of these vaccines just isn’t there. If you read the studies, they aren’t definitive. If they were, the medical establishment wouldn’t be so defensive. For example, I would encourage people to read the recent filings with the FDA for the newest vaccines. The “safety” studies are entirely based on whether children die in the short term and with no long-term studies. In fact, until the “anti-vaccine” crowd started making noise, the medical community didn’t even bother to study the longer-term effect of many vaccines.

What we need is good science. Not name calling. The medical community’s instinct to label anyone discussing the safety of vaccines as threatening public health is a sign of arrogance and is an example of the anti-science mentality they deplore. The real threat to public health has been the medical community’s failure to demand constant studies of the safety of these mandated vaccines.

— Posted by Tom
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49.
April 18th,
2008
10:30 pm

First, to those who have Asperger’s or a child with Asperger’s, and have generally posted that it’s okay to be different that way–of course it is.

But not all autism is just what most of us would see as personality differences.

Lots of teens and children today (and some adults) are clearly disabled with something, and many are clearly physically sick as well. Parents can tell the difference.

For parents here who are in the process of making vaccination decisions in the best interests of their child (i.e., would rather not sacrifice their particular child for the common good):

www.generationrescue.com

There’s a very good vaccine schedule presented by Dr. Donald Miller. His schedule is much safer than the current one and still offers good protection against the most-feared, most-deadly diseases.

In choosing the current schedule (36 shots before age 2), parents risk the following for their child:

– 1% to 2% chance of autism (the disability, not the personality difference)
– 10% chance of milder neurological/immune system problems, which may be labeled PDD-NOS, Asperger’s, ADHD, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), oppositional defiance disorder (ODD), or some combination of these
– 10% chance of asthma, possibly life-threatening

Additional risks include (but are not necessarily limited to): diabetes, food allergies (some life-threatening), seizures, and death.

For parents who already know (or suspect) that their child has a problem, it’s important to know that autism is now best understood as a whole-body illness, with neurological, immune, and gastro-intestinal symptoms all being commonly present.

It is treatable, and some children recover fully or nearly so. It’s important to start treatment early and best to combine biomedical treatment with one or more of the behavioral therapies: RDI (Relationship Development Intervention), Greenspan, or ABA. RDI is quickly becoming the gold standard in this arena, though ABA and/or Greenspan seem to work best for some, or may be chosen for practical reasons.

Diet is usually the easiest first intervention, and extremely effective for almost all children, once the right foods are chosen.

Parents most often find the GFCF diet (gluten-free, casein-free) to be nearly miraculous for younger children and also very effective (though not working so quickly) in older children.

Again, information and support may be found easily, as countless parents (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) are now using this diet or some variation thereof. For some, the GFCF diet will not be sufficient, but the SCD (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) will work.

Start at:

www.gfcfdiet.com

Or again:

www.generationrescue.com

In addition, there are many blogs written by parents of autistic children; one of the best is:

www.adventuresinautism.blogspot.com

I nearly forgot to mention: speech therapy, occupational therapy, and sensory integration therapy may also be needed.

Does your child seem very emotionally distant? Does he experience ongoing diarrhea (or constipation, or a combination of the two)? Does he seem either exceptionally lethargic, or very hyperactive, or swing from one to the other? Does he still not speak at all at the age of two? Or three? Does he seem not to hear you when you call him? Do you just know something is wrong with his development, but can’t put your finger on it?

All of these are warning signs.

Don’t ignore a problem when it’s so easy to help. You can recover your child!

Terri Lewis

P.S. For parents and others who sincerely want to know: I learned all of this the hard way.

You don’t think it can happen to you until it does, then you find out just how many others there are.

Then I spent about 400 hours (and counting) in study, 5 years in practical application, and several additional years in learning from (and educating) other parents with children suffering from autism.

Best wishes to those deciding about vaccinations and to those just now finding out that something is wrong with their child.

— Posted by Terri Lewis
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50.
April 18th,
2008
10:36 pm

Wow! I am always amazed at the readers who think they know something about this subject. They read a few news stories about all those “studies” that prove that there is no connection between vaccines and autism and they are experts. You can’t make this up! Have you been to a Defeat Autism Now, Autism One, National Autism Association Conference lately? Have you seen the kids recovered from autism by heavy metals detox and nutritional supplements? Have you noticed that you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting an individual with autism? You have to be kidding me with the arguments presented above! Why do you think we have the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? because no one gets injured by their vaccines? Is there a program like that for ANY other medical product? Shouldn’t that make you think twice about the safety of vaccines? Why does a 2 day old need a vaccine for Hepatitis B? Are there a lot of crack whore 2 day olds in this world? I’m not aware of that. Have you REALLY looked at the website for National Vaccine Information Center? Have you read the first hand stories of normal children being turned into vegetables and zombies by their vaccines? Why is it incomprehensible to you all that vaccines can cause Autism? And do you really KNOW what Autism is? I’m not talking about the autism where everyone just thinks the person is quirky and socially inept but they go on to be Bill Gates. Thats Faux-tism. Lets discuss AUTISM. No speech, no facial affect, no communication, no toilet training, hands in the diaper spreading feces on their body and on the wall and everywhere in the house, requiring 24/7 attention, tantruming, slamming their head on the hard wood floor, suffering torturous stomach and intestinal pain due to gastro dysfunction, beating smaller helpless siblings, chasing their dad across a street,beating him and then biting the tip of his finger off, kicking the oven door glass out with their bare feet, requiring 4 adults to restrain them in the airport gate area, being sent to live in an institution at age 13 where older residents may rape or beat them, climbing out on the roof because it looks fun and then falling off to their death, running out of the house and into a lake at age 5 and not understanding the first thing about drowning, parents frantically searching for their 4 year old who ran out the door and hearing the train whistle of the nearby railroad tracks getting closer and closer, parents searching for an hour when their son mysteriously disappears from their house without a trace and then finding him, luckily in time, in a 85 degree day in their attic in clothing trunk whose lid had slammed down while he played in there. AUTISM is no joke, it is not “oh well” so their kid will work at McDonalds instead of Trump tower, it is a nightmare without end, it is post traumatic stress disorder every day, it is not better than measles, mumps or rubella and maybe even not better than polio. If you think it can’t happen to your family, YOU ARE WRONG. If you think vaccine injury of other kind cannot happen to your family, YOU ARE WRONG. Read the package inserts at Johns Hopkins website www.vaccinesafety.edu. The injuries are SPELLED OUT right there on the manufacturers package information. Remember to apologize to all of us for your ignorance when the CDC modifies the vaccine schedule to reduce the number of total vaccines and limits the number allowed in one day.

— Posted by Heidi Roger
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51.
April 18th,
2008
10:54 pm

The saddest thing about this conversation is how little many of you seem to care about those who are harmed by vaccines. Even if the numbers were miniscule, where are your hearts?

Unfortunately, however, the numbers are not miniscule. There is in fact considerable evidence that vaccines are have and continue to cause harm and that one can persuasively argue that the benefits of vaccination may not outweigh their risks. Those of you who are interested in investigating the issue for yourselves might consider using Vaccination News (http://www.vaccinationnews.org, which provides all sides of the controversy (see mission statement at http://www.vaccinationnews.com/mission_statement.htm) as a resource, as well as my column Scandals, where many aspects of the vaccine issue have been scrutinized. Thanks to the Internet, numerous links to medical journal articles are included whenever possible.

As Einstein once said, “A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth”. Belittling those who are seeking the truth does nothing to advance it.

All the best,
Sandy Gottstein
President, Vaccination News, A Non-Profit Corporation

— Posted by Sandy Gottstein
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52.
April 18th,
2008
11:03 pm

I forgot to thank you, Tara, for interviewing Dr. Poling.

— Posted by Sandy Gottstein
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53.
April 18th,
2008
11:10 pm

Vaccines have been proven to cause encephalits, and even death in the immunodeficienct, can we agree that those individuals need to be protected?

My daughter suffered a severe adverse reaction (erythema multiforme, high fever, seizures) after receiving the following vaccines at 17 months(yes they give THAT many at once!) After that day, she regressed. The day my daughter received the vaccines that gave her the reaction, she received:

DTaP
-diptheria
-tetanus
-attenuated pertusis
MMR (3 live viruses)
-Measles
-Mumps
-Rubella
Varicella (1 live virus)
-chicken pox
Prevnar (7 strains of pnumonia bacterium)
S. pneumoniae 4
S. pneumoniae 6B
S. pneumoniae 9V
S. pneumoniae 14
S. pneumoniae 18C
S. pneumoniae 19F
S. pneumoniae 23F

It was AFTER my daughter had a reaction that I kept wondering why, and reading from PubMed that I stumbled upon primary immunodeficiency.

The 10 Warning Signs of Primary Immune Deficiency
1-Eight or more new ear infections within one year.
2-Two or more serious sinus infections within 1 year.
3-Two or more months on antibiotics with little effect.
4-Two or more pneumonias within 1 year.
5-Failure of an infant to gain weight or grow normally.
6-Recurrent, deep skin or organ abscesses.
7-Persistent thrush in mouth or elsewhere on skin, after age 1.
8-Need for intravenous antibiotics to clear infections.
9-Two or more deep-seated infections such as sepsis, meningitis or cellulitis.
10-A family history of primary immune deficiency.
www.primaryimmune.org

I had 6 of these signs for 10 years, and a dx of “idiopathic leukocytosis” (which my father also has, and my daughter’s pediatrican knew about) meaning high wbc with unknown origin. All my doctor had ever done was test me for HIV! He never referred me to an immunologist! That high wbc is because I was constantly fighting infection. It is not abnormal for my wbc to be in the 30s at any given time!

Then we went to the immunologist, and bingo, we had our answer. Not only did my daughter have an adverse reaction to her vaccinations, she also did not create antibodies to some, and does not have an adequate response to the rest.

What I am in favor of, is identifying those who may not respond favorably to vaccination PRIOR to vaccination. If that means a blood test prior, so be it, if it means delaying the schedule, so be it, but we need to protect these kids, rather than adding new vaccines at earlier ages (they are now giving the MMR at 12 months)! As of yet, most immundeficiencies are undetectable until after age 6! Also, the average time between onset of symtoms, and accurate diagnosis is 9 years! This is ALOT of kids we aren’t looking for!

Funny thing, is that many of those with autism, also have varying degrees of immunodeficiency. Even some gentic studies linking the two.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/54747.php

Here is some interesting information about the occurance of Primary Immunodeficiency-
http://primaryimmune.org/pubs/second_national_survey_of _patients.pdf

My daughter now has a permanent medical exemption for vaccination.

It IS heartbreaking after the fact, to learn from the medical establishment, that she should have never had the vaccines.

From the NIH “Primary Immune Deficiency- When the Body’s Defenses Are Missing” under “Important Precautions”

“Children with PI diseases, especially those with defective T cells, X-linked agammaglobulinemia, and ataxia telangiectasia should not receive live virus vaccines, such as the oral polio, measles, and chicken pox (varicella) vaccines. It is not even safe to give live virus vaccines to children suspected of immunodeficiency until a definitive diagnosis is rendered. There is a risk that such vaccines could cause serious illness or even death.”
http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/primary_immu no.cfm#ImportantPrecautions

Yet we do nothing to rule them out before giving them live virus vaccines, instead we keep pushing the age of vaccination younger, and younger.

My daughter likely had encephalitis, according to our neurologist. And she also has the diagnosis of autism.

Her story, and the story of too many other autistic children tells one of encephalitis during critical brain development, often right after live virus vaccination.

I do not doubt that a natural case of measles, or chicken pox could do the same to an immunodeficient child during this period of brain growth.

There is so much we still do not know about this to stop researching the implications of vaccination in the etiology of autism. To state that there is no link is a fallacy.

Autism aside, we need to further protect children with mitochondrial dysfunction and immunodeficiency, rather than sacrifice these children for the sake of “herd immunity”.

— Posted by Monica
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54.
April 18th,
2008
11:14 pm

For those of you who are interested, here is Boyd Haley’s (chairman of the chemistry department at the University of Kentucky) response to the Schecther-Grether paper cited by Holy Cow, it’s a Yank!:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/boyd_haley_1-8-08.htm

— Posted by Sandy Gottstein
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55.
April 19th,
2008
12:26 am

“There’s a very good vaccine schedule presented by Dr. Donald Miller. His schedule is much safer than the current one and still offers good protection against the most-feared, most-deadly diseases.”

Have you read that schedule? Does it offer good protection against the most-feared, most-deadly diseases?

How can it, when it doesn’t immunize against Measles, Mumps or Rubella? Seriously, no vaccination against any of those diseases is included in that schedule.

People fight the name “anti-vaccine” but what should we call an organization that rejects vaccinations for some of the most dangerous diseases we know? Generation Rescue and their representative, Jenny McCarthy, send people to that vaccine schedule without warning parents of the huge risks they would be taking with their children. If not “anti-vaccine”, how about “irresponsible”? It’s far too weak a label, but what do you call people who would reject protection against such serious diseases without warning?